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jast
Member
USA
37 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 05 2003 : 1:35:18 PM
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I thought i would mention how lucky Aaron is to have beaten the system and gotten a technology job without college.I have friends taking EE tech courses in college that come to me for answers. I hate colleges and everyone in them to. They are a waste of money for something that you end up doing yourself anyway. When was the last time anyone was taught something at college.
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n/a
DELETED (Inactive)
61 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2003 : 12:06:36 AM
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Hello! What you explained is the thruth about any Educational System today. For myself, I was teaching in Vocational Schools during 11 years and I quit. I have now 3 business, 2 stores an a shop; this way, I can offer my employees the perferct training, on the spot, down to earth learning. And they are paid to learn!!!! (Promising they will work for me 2 years). Well good luck and remember, if Aaron did it, you can do it too 
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Hassan Kude
Apprentice
Nigeria
63 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2003 : 06:08:49 AM
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hi andre
i agree with you a hundred and ten percent.it's not what certificate you hold but what you can really do that matters. i'm in school okay,but i've learnt enough on electronics outside school than i have in school!.
Zig Zag |
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Aaron Cake
Administrator
Canada
6718 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2003 : 09:11:16 AM
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I can't count the number of "certified, educated" people I have met that can't even format a floppy disk. It's truely scary, and it is these people that give the IT industry a bad name and make computer ownership a trying experience. This is due to something I call the "dumbass effect". It goes something like this:
The general knowledge level of the public is fairly low (ie. people are stupid). Little Jimmy knows a little about computers. He can install software, and fix minor problems. Because the knowledge level of everyone else is so low, Jimmy appears in everyone else's eyes to be a "genius" with computers. Soon, Jimmy is called to fix people's problems. Suddenly Jimmy thinks he actually have a knowledge level high enough to make a living, and applies for a job in the IT industry. Unfortunately, Jimmy is usually hired since the managers know very little about technology and anyone who can throw around a few buzzwards looks impressive. Soon it is obvious that Jimmy actually knows very little, yet for some reason he continues his work. This causes all manor of problems, customers get angry, spend too much money, etc. Now I am called in to fix these problems, and have to break through the bad feelings left by little Jimmy.
Or at least, that's my theory anyway. What most of the world doesn't seem to get is that school != knowledge. Theory is one thing, experience another. And for those select few that are fast learners, experience is the ultimate teacher.
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jast
Member
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2003 : 03:55:14 AM
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quote:
I can't count the number of "certified, educated" people I have met that can't even format a floppy disk. It's truely scary, and it is these people that give the IT industry a bad name and make computer ownership a trying experience. This is due to something I call the "dumbass effect". It goes something like this:
The general knowledge level of the public is fairly low (ie. people are stupid). Little Jimmy knows a little about computers. He can install software, and fix minor problems. Because the knowledge level of everyone else is so low, Jimmy appears in everyone else's eyes to be a "genius" with computers. Soon, Jimmy is called to fix people's problems. Suddenly Jimmy thinks he actually have a knowledge level high enough to make a living, and applies for a job in the IT industry. Unfortunately, Jimmy is usually hired since the managers know very little about technology and anyone who can throw around a few buzzwards looks impressive. Soon it is obvious that Jimmy actually knows very little, yet for some reason he continues his work. This causes all manor of problems, customers get angry, spend too much money, etc. Now I am called in to fix these problems, and have to break through the bad feelings left by little Jimmy.
Or at least, that's my theory anyway. What most of the world doesn't seem to get is that school != knowledge. Theory is one thing, experience another. And for those select few that are fast learners, experience is the ultimate teacher.
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BEatonNo1
Nobel Prize Winner
USA
1133 Posts |
Posted - Mar 18 2003 : 8:48:10 PM
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I for one has learned a lot at a college i took a C++ class and am currently taking a Auto Cad Class. of course I am one of those that dont learn from a book very well.
one factor that may be the cause is that a lot of people go into a carrer just for the money. that is why i think that every one says that elecrical engeneering is so hard. people hear that it pays good but dont know shit about the area. they go into the program not knowing much about a computer and not even knowing what a diode is and are expected to graduate knowing how to create the guts of a computer in four years. so half of them drop out because it isnt what they expected and the other half just stumble through. and only a small percentage actually have an intrist in the field and learn what is required. those are the ones that make it. I for one have meet some geniouses in fields who have collected their knowlage from college. colleges now have so much to teach in four years that unless you have the interest to grasp the concepts you are not going to be able to keep up.
high schools on the other hand are a useless waist of taxes. I havnt seen a school yet that didnt have its #1 priority of sports. i go to a 2A school (that means its really small) and if they were to cut their sport budget by 75% (that means no new uniforms every year) then the science programs and computer programs could maibe teach some new field such as electronics and programming.
another problem with the public schools is that they waist kids lives. I cant even tell you how many times I have been taught american history. its useless. another class is english, do you really need that many years of it. especially when you are taught so much literature. that can be replaced with grammer. which is definatly important but dragged out way to long. If some of these classes were cut and curriculums changed so that they are more efficent, than other classes could be taken that would expose kids to carrer fields so that when you graduate you have some sort of knowlage so that you know where in life you want to go. I dont know how many of my friends have no clue what they want to do, and some are entering fields that they know nothing about. partly this could be helped by parents urging their children to find hobbies. Most kids spend all of their lives participating in sports. this is fun of course and i agree that it is good, but sports aren't going to get you anywhere. unless your really really good.
another problem with society is that you really dont have to know about the things you use. people like to be ignorant of whats around them or something, I for one am extreamly annoyed when I dont have even a basic knowlege of how something works. in the past you had to fix something if it broke because usually it was too hard to find someone else to do it for you or you didnt have enough money. now days people couldnt care its so much easier to get someone to do it for you.
any ways back on topic now I have to disagree i think colleges can teach you alot, but the person has to be motivated in that area.
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Aaron Cake
Administrator
Canada
6718 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2003 : 10:20:32 AM
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Excellant post. Almost 100% in agreement.
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n/a
DELETED (Inactive)
61 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2003 : 10:51:45 PM
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I dont want to put all eggs in the same basket , in some case (if not many), experience is better than a diploma, in other cases, it is more critical. Would you visit a dentist who operate without his/her diploma?? For myself, I teach night courses in a college (in Quebec, those colleges are called "C.E.G.E.P." and trust me, no one can teach overthere without a B.A. completed and your 1000 hours of teaching practicing. Many people may easily find a job today, some with no diplomas just dont have a CV and others with a diploma have a CV. The reason? With educational background, it is easier to prepare a CV, a serious one, to apply for a job. Imagine a CV without any diplomas in it, the employer will throw it away, thinking this application is not serious. This is independentely of the qualifications of the applicant. Imagine a world without any diplomas, no universities or colleges! We will than return in the middle-age! Anyway, this is my opinion, like I said, experience is better, assuming you are lucky enough to get the job and of course, the company you work for will not go out of business one day, because you will need another luck. Bye now, André
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BEatonNo1
Nobel Prize Winner
USA
1133 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2003 : 11:08:12 PM
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Yes I definantly agree. any Ideot can sit through a class and answer all of the questions on the test and get that little piece of paper. It really doesnt take that much. most jobs requier so many years of experiance.
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jast
Member
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - Mar 21 2003 : 01:31:24 AM
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Experience is only gained through knowledge. Some of us are adept enough to be able to read and gain that knowledge ourselfs. For everyone else they have to pay to be made to work. Without the knowledge your stuck in the mud. Most people just cant be trusted to leanr on their own and for the before mention reason of "the money". Ive met one or 2 ee's that went through college and when they actualy started doing the work they hated it. they paid the money to be made to learn something they didnt want in the first place. On the other hand we want it bad enough that we do it on our own time and even though we dont all know the math we still find it much more intresting then those that paid to learn it. There is one good thing i can say for college and that is subtleties. With out the prof or the grad students your might never learn what bounce is or exactly why a light bulb burns out when its first turned on. In addition i never would have learned physics if i didnt take it in high school and i'd be missing out on alot of stuff.( Very profound when youve done electronics for years and then take physics. Alot of stuff makes more sense but other things seem ludicrious.)
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Aaron Cake
Administrator
Canada
6718 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2003 : 1:56:51 PM
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I would agree with the Dentist example. School would definitly be necessary, because I DEFINITLY don't want to go to a dentist that learns everything through experience and the mistakes that go with it. I certainly would not want my mouth to be his learning experience...
But let's face it, there are very few "natural" dentists in this world. There are, however, a great number of natural "techies", who have an inborn knowledge of almost all things technical. That is the difference.
The other side of this is that (in my experience anyway) that so-called "smart kids" simply test well and suck up alot. The real world is a horrid shock to their systems since it does not follow a school mentality (well, maybe highschool social structure, but I digress). Those smart kids are now all the people graduating for college and university, sitting in the unemployment line, who my taxes are supporting. 
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College
