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wasssup1990
Nobel Prize Winner
A Land Down Under
2261 Posts |
 Posted - May 27 2011 : 11:16:25 PM
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Oh no, look what you've done Sicode. LOL!
I hear you John (audioguru).
Just pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You'll get the same unpredictable results as with any god, and I'm not implying that any of them are real.
Sicode, religion is the exact opposite of science, that is why they happen to come in conflict. Religion is based on irrationalisations and lack of evidence. Science is based on rationalisations and evidence. I preffer the latter. Science works, religion doesn't.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9KlMWzKj4s&feature=channel_video_title |
When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity.
When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion. |
Edited by - wasssup1990 on May 28 2011 02:08:46 AM |
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Sicode
Apprentice
67 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2011 : 10:05:27 AM
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Pebe, Christainity is the ultimate. Other religions seem to have been lifted from the Bible. Christainity, is older than sciences, I believe, and at the same time is more stable than sciences. Sciences have suffered the most agonizing and alarming missing links. Even in sciences there seems to be more brutal disagreements, disputes etc., than in religion. See what Darwin suffered. Religion seems blind, but sciences is more blind. Then sciences is more delusional.
God made man. Who made GOd, people wonder.
Atoms exist. What brought about atoms? Missing links. There is no beginning and no end.
Religion tries to predict GOd. The universe seems well designed and set by the unknown. Sciences seem to have been planned by that unknown (called GOd) and that unknown has thrown into the universe a big book with some hidden formulae. That book is our sciences causing headache today. So, which suffers more delusion?
Mr. Aaron seems to be worried about the delusion thing. No reply. Looool.
FC Barcelona |
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wasssup1990
Nobel Prize Winner
A Land Down Under
2261 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2011 : 10:26:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sicode
Pebe, Christainity is the ultimate. Other religions seem to have been lifted from the Bible. Christainity, is older than sciences, I believe, and at the same time is more stable than sciences. Sciences have suffered the most agonizing and alarming missing links. Even in sciences there seems to be more brutal disagreements, disputes etc., than in religion. See what Darwin suffered. Religion seems blind, but sciences is more blind. Then sciences is more delusional.
God made man. Who made GOd, people wonder.
Atoms exist. What brought about atoms? Missing links. There is no beginning and no end.
Religion tries to predict GOd. The universe seems well designed and set by the unknown. Sciences seem to have been planned by that unknown (called GOd) and that unknown has thrown into the universe a big book with some hidden formulae. That book is our sciences causing headache today. So, which suffers more delusion?
Mr. Aaron seems to be worried about the delusion thing. No reply. Looool.
FC Barcelona
Wow! You sure are irrational. You clearly have no idea of what you're talking about. No offence. Aaron is going to laugh reading that!  |
When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity.
When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion. |
Edited by - wasssup1990 on May 28 2011 10:33:03 AM |
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Sicode
Apprentice
67 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2011 : 11:12:00 AM
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Ok, wasssup. I guess, wasssup, as a kid you were made to go to church under duress by your dad's dictates. But today, sciences seem to have changed you. True? Lol. Jokes, anyway. Can you construct an electronic bible? Loooooooool! My friend just said now that sciences is a table the lost the fourth leg. Funny.
Maybe, Aaron is the judge.
FC Barcelona |
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pebe
Nobel Prize Winner
United Kingdom
1078 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2011 : 12:11:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sicode
....The universe seems well designed and set by the unknown. Sciences seem to have been planned by that unknown (called GOd)...
I will go along with that.
quote:
... and that unknown has thrown into the universe a big book with some hidden formulae......
That the trouble! The people who wrote the Bible, the Koran, Darwin's 'Origin of Species', Einstein and many others, all think they have the answers. But they haven't, and all are flawed.
Man's puny brain can never begin to understand how it all began, so there is no use trying to, or fighting wars over religeous beliefs.
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wasssup1990
Nobel Prize Winner
A Land Down Under
2261 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2011 : 12:39:50 PM
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My immediate family is not religious, they do not go to church and your guess was incorrect. Nothing changed me, I was allowed to make up my own mind, I was not indoctrinated and I am accepted for who I am. The number of times I have been inside a church could probably be counted on my fingers. Australia is a pretty secular country, you don't get exposed to religion as much as you would say, America.
Did you know that the more educated people are the more likely they are to be "non-believers". Religion strives in the ignorant.
When I was very young and ignorant I believed in Santa because everyone convinced me. I didn't know much so it was easy to convince me.
Since 2002 I have had a good friend who was religious. We had long discussions and conflict about religions and Gods. About three or four years ago I noticed that he was starting to see the holes in what he believed. I didn't "convert" him, he made up his own mind. All I did was present him logical and rational arguments, you don't need to bring science in to it, it's not necessary. However, whenever he had a query why something was so, being the type of scientific and technically minded guy that I am I was sometimes able to explain things to him which no doubt put him further up the knowledge tree. Knowledge is power.
I should also mention that an overseas student came to me and my friends school who had a different religion to my friend's. He was from the Solomon Islands. There's one thing he questioned/challenged me about and that I'll never forget, and it was "Explain this to me this to me then. How can a baby survive in the Womb if it doesn't eat?". No doubt he felt humiliated when I answered and my friend (then religious) backed me up, but he hid it pretty well. My point is education is the answer to so many problems. Lack of education spawns ignorance, ignorance spawns irrational beliefs and gullibility.
Sicode, you sure seem to know very little science and yet your on a scientific forum. I really wonder about you. You posted a potentially lethal water boiler. I think you might partially be a Pseudo Scientist.
Cracking lame jokes is typical when a religious person feels intimidated by a non-believer.
Don't take it to heart. From experience I know some people will and I wouldn't want to upset anyone. If you are a good person who isn't going to walk into a populated area and blow yourself up, then just ignore what I have said, I don't care. Continue believing what you and your friends believe. I am not trying to be a smartarse.
Anyway stay safe (stay away from that boiler) and have a good one. I've gotta put my time towards more useful things. Hehe.
I'm done here, unless something good pops up.
EDIT:
Pebe, I agree that there is no point in "fighting wars over religeous beliefs". Which is one of the reasons why I don't like religion. |
When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity.
When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion. |
Edited by - wasssup1990 on May 28 2011 12:48:50 PM |
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Sicode
Apprentice
67 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2011 : 12:56:08 PM
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Ok, wasssup, i was just kidding. You are a great one.
FC Barcelona |
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Sicode
Apprentice
67 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2011 : 12:59:01 PM
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Ok, pebe. I get it.
FC Barca |
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wasssup1990
Nobel Prize Winner
A Land Down Under
2261 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2011 : 1:03:49 PM
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Okay, cool. Good to see that you take it well. Like I said, I don't want to upset anyone and I mean that. Good discussion.
Also, I try to be as rational as I can so that means that I cannot disprove or prove that a GOD exists, just like you can't disprove the existence of my invisible friend. 
Pebe, I would contest:
quote:
That the trouble! The people who wrote the Bible, the Koran, Darwin's 'Origin of Species', Einstein and many others, all think they have the answers. But they haven't, and all are flawed.
... but somehow I don't think it'll make a difference. I'm assuming you've been around for a while, perhaps more than 50 years, being "Retired"? If you think that now about Darwin and Einstein who base their theories on realities terms then, yeah, not worth my time. No offence. I think you may be misusing the word "answers" in regards to both both people, where the misuse is leaning more toward Einstein. |
When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity.
When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion. |
Edited by - wasssup1990 on May 28 2011 1:35:03 PM |
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Sicode
Apprentice
67 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2011 : 1:52:55 PM
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Ok wassssup: I love the summary, 'no point in fighting religious wars'. It is a destructive arrow piercing through the world. I wonder what can truly stop that arrow. I wish something would stop it.
FC Barcelona |
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wasssup1990
Nobel Prize Winner
A Land Down Under
2261 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2011 : 2:22:51 PM
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Well the statistics show that Education is the most likely solution. With education people will naturally be non-religious and overall more rational, especially if they are raised in a "make up your own mind" household. Beliefs should never ever be imposed upon anyone.
Religion causes so many deaths because of those crazy terrorists. Even if Religions were able to get along with each other, the very idea behind religion is to mislead and basically create a false reality in people minds to control them. I live strictly on reality's terms and I try my hardest to not delude myself. I believe in Aliens and UFOs, but of course I am more than happy to say that they may not exist, although that seems highly unlikely on reality's terms.
Ah! I can't stop!. I like this topic.
I think that when people say the universe must be designed, they are being irrational. Would you regard the infinite detail in the Mandelbrot set as being "designed"? Of course not! Maybe that's just what this so called "Universe" is. Infinite in every regard. Only the ongoing effort of science and time will tell. Religion is stuck in a rut and not acquiring any new information. It's closed minded. I don't think it will keep up with the wealth of knowledge and discoveries made in the last 200 to 300 years into the new millennium.
WOW! I should really get to bed. See ya! |
When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity.
When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion. |
Edited by - wasssup1990 on May 28 2011 2:43:56 PM |
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Sicode
Apprentice
67 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2011 : 5:18:12 PM
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Wassssup, beautiful. Powerful perspective from you. Yet other religious people can also give thier own powerful perspectives. The Funny thing is that our early fathers started with religion. Look at the course today. Then science emerged. How about magic? I have seen miracle myself. I have noticed an lame walk, an AIDS's patient healed in a religious activity by one of the powerful men of GOd, Reinhrd Bonkee. I wonder what is realy behind it. There is a lot to religion, really, as I see, than just the perspective of the pegans and so on. If miracles exist, i wonder if certain religions are not true. I mean, there could be something behind the mysteries. A lot of things do happen and they are not feigned. Some even call magic science. I really wonder if religion is altogether meretricious. In the future there could be a reconcillation between sciences and religion, CHristainity precisely. Both science and religion are oceans with no end.
Sleep well, wassssup.
I just left a hotel after my victory against Manu. FC Barcelona 3 Manu1. Today is my happiest day. Hahahahahahahaahahahaaaha!!!!!!!!!!
FC Barcelona |
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wasssup1990
Nobel Prize Winner
A Land Down Under
2261 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2011 : 10:33:39 PM
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The reason why religion, prayers and magic are not used to solve problems is because they don't work, otherwise people wouldn't have a need to turn to science. The framework of science is the best method (the scientific method) we know of to create and build upon knowledge from observations of reality, on reality's terms. Saying that science doesn't have the answers and never will is stupid and naive because science grows as opposed to religion which is pre-set and doesn't grow. Religion won't be able to hold up well going into the future because it doesn't answer anything, it does tell you things however, assert them to be true and threaten you with eternal punishment if you don't accept them. Screw that!
Quote from Sicode:
quote:
In the future there could be a reconcillation between sciences and religion, CHristainity precisely.
It won't happen. Religion and science are two completely different things. Religion is a belief system which asserts to be absolute truth, science is nothing like that. There is no similarity between them, they are completely incompatible. I honestly don't see why anyone can come to a thought like that, it's completely illogical, but I hear it all the time. It's just plain ignorance of what science is, clearly.
Also, this is so clear to me but obviously not to soooooo many people.
If you say there must be a designer for the universe because the universe looks designed - apart from that being completely irrational and delusional it is also outright self-falsifying. Let's say that there is a designer, then who designed that designer? And who designed that designer? And who designed that designer? And who designed that designer? And who designed that designer? And who designed that designer? Do you see the point I am trying to make? It's outright illogical. Just because something looks like it adheres to something you understand well (design) doesn't mean that it is. The "creationist" or "intelligent designer" argue this rubbish all the time. The idea is an infinite loop which self-falsifies and doesn't get you any closer to your goal in finding the origin of everything. It's a dead-end. Most scientists realize this and that's why they don't bother with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ft0RjJmTSo
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When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity.
When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion. |
Edited by - wasssup1990 on May 29 2011 12:11:30 AM |
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pebe
Nobel Prize Winner
United Kingdom
1078 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2011 : 12:43:41 AM
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Wasup,
Re your earlier comments, I was thinking of Einstein’s abstract concept of four dimensional space when he said "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." That’s about as nebulous and unproved as the Bible’s “God the father, God the son and God the Holy Ghost”.
Darwin examined the evolution of life during a very limited period in the 19th century and then believed he was right to extrapolate that data back to the year dot and say all animal life came from a single species. What flimsy evidence for a belief.
As for the universe being designed – I have a bird box in the garden with a camera fitted inside it. I see daily how a bluetit with a brain the size of a pea knows how to pick a nest site, pick a mate, make a nest, have sex and feed and rear a family. I see how bare-skinned young can hatch from an egg and evolve in a couple of weeks into fully feathered birds able to fly from the minute they leave the nest. And I have come to the conclusion that it HAS to be by design. Who the designer was or how it was done is completely beyond my understanding and, at my late stage of life, I have no intention of trying to fathom it out.
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Edited by - pebe on May 29 2011 12:44:31 AM |
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wasssup1990
Nobel Prize Winner
A Land Down Under
2261 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2011 : 02:51:03 AM
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Hi Pebe. I was hoping you were going to post your reasoning, and you did. 
quote:
Re your earlier comments, I was thinking of Einstein’s abstract concept of four dimensional space when he said "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." That’s about as nebulous and unproved as the Bible’s “God the father, God the son and God the Holy Ghost”.
I take that concept with a grain of salt. Everyone has their beliefs and theories. Theories are dropped, shelved, created and amended with new discoveries. I really don't see the big deal here though. Saying "he thinks he knows everything" is a bit of a stretch I think. No one in their right might could think or say that. The difference between Einstein, Darwin and the other religious folk is they actually use science and at least Einstein was able to produce results.
quote:
Darwin examined the evolution of life during a very limited period in the 19th century and then believed he was right to extrapolate that data back to the year dot and say all animal life came from a single species. What flimsy evidence for a belief
For poor Darwin it's not as easy to produce results because evolution isn't exactly something that happens over night. "What flimsy evidence for a belief." doesn't make sense to me because beliefs don't necessarily require proof or evidence. Theories do. Again I think it's a bit of stretch to say "he thinks he knows everything". A lot has been built upon the Theory of evolution since Darwin. Selective breeding can be seen as a special form of evolution where humans influence the evolution of a species. Natural selection is strictly performed by nature and the environment.
quote:
As for the universe being designed – I have a bird box in the garden with a camera fitted inside it. I see daily how a bluetit with a brain the size of a pea knows how to pick a nest site, pick a mate, make a nest, have sex and feed and rear a family. I see how bare-skinned young can hatch from an egg and evolve in a couple of weeks into fully feathered birds able to fly from the minute they leave the nest. And I have come to the conclusion that it HAS to be by design. Who the designer was or how it was done is completely beyond my understanding and, at my late stage of life, I have no intention of trying to fathom it out.
Oh I've heard similar arguments before. It's very simple minded in my opinion but your last sentence produces feelings towards you. Well... okay, you have already made up your mind. I was right in thinking that I would be fighting a loosing battle if I was to put forward good arguments to you.
Well at least you didn't try and bible-hump me. It sounds like you don't believe that shit anyway LOL.
Good on you.
Have a good one. |
When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity.
When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion. |
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