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DELETED (Inactive)
24 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 17 2003 : 9:56:31 PM
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ok, i just wrote out a big long post, but i lost it when i tried to login and failed, arg...
so wont write it all out again.
brief summary, my car has been broken into three times in the last month
im sick of it.
obvious solution: alarm
the obvious solution is being adressed currently (ie shopping for an alarm)
the solution i WANT is to make would-be burglers think twice after touching my car. i am thinking along the lines of a high voltage electric shock...
i was wondering if it would be possible to rig up a capacitor or some device that will supply an electric charge to the door handles when the alarm is activated.
the result being that when mr.burgler comes along and trys to open the door, lightening shoots out his ass!
well, ok, not quite, but something that will put im on hiss ass anyway.
um, yeah. suggestions and comments would be greatly appreciated. thankyou for taking the time to read this topic :)
-Jamie D
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Aaron Cake
Administrator
Canada
6718 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2003 : 3:04:20 PM
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Yes, but you would need to totally isolate the door handle from the rest of the car (hard to do). A simple HV generator like http://www.aaroncake.net/circuits/hvgen.htm would do fine. The circuit will run from 12V is you eliminate the power supply section.
However, think twice about this if you are in the US. They sue if you look at them funny, so it is entirely possible that the the theif could sue you should they sustain injury from the shock.
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DELETED (Inactive)
24 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2003 : 4:39:08 PM
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ok, sounds easy in theory...
apart from isolating doorhandels...mmmm, will have to look into this i guess :S
mmm spose you couldnt do it to the whole body due to earthing issues...
anyways thanks for the insifghtful help
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DELETED (Inactive)
24 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2003 : 4:44:01 PM
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oh, and arron, i am from new zealand, not te us so it should be ok (ill consult a lawyer before doing this, or mabey just slap a "WARNING, HIGH VOLTAGE!" sign on the car, thatd shut them up.
with my car, what will happen is an alarm wil be brought along with solex locks or similar. before i install both these items i will figure out how to incorperate the "shocking unit" and so on..
again thankyou for your insight...
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DELETED (Inactive)
24 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2003 : 10:37:36 PM
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OK!
not gunna be so easy i think...
how to explain this... (as im not an electronics buff like you guys)
ok, um im thinking of connecting the high voltage generator to the 12v car battery. thats fine.
but if i have the output from the generator rigged directly to the doorhandels it'll just create a short circuit or something wont it? and if it does still work, that'd flatten the battery really fast wouldnt it?
im not really quite sure how im going to do this... :S
all i know is i gotta turn 12v's from car battery into a high voltage, then store it in a capacitor until sum1 touches the doorhandles. is that even possible for this to be that simple?
(plus the saftey issue, dont want joe random or joe random's kid to brush up against the doorhandle and get fryed on accident...)
any ideas/help would be greatly appreciated.
i still want to do this, i kinda like the idea of giving theives some shock treatment, sort of an incentive to get them to stop permenantly.
or at least a blunt warning for them to f#@!off as far as my car's concerned.
i think i might like inflicting pain on those who deserve it, beats the justice system where nothing happens at all...
(just hope they dont wear gloves, lol!)
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Aaron Cake
Administrator
Canada
6718 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2003 : 09:00:15 AM
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You really need to electrically isolate the door handle for this to work. What about connecting a metal plate under the handle and energizing that? You then don't have to worry about the whole thing...
To prevent battery drain, the plate could use a much lower voltage to sense a current draw (ie. person) and then ramp up the voltage. Or only activate it with the alarm.
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Epsilon!
Mad Scientist
Canada
276 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2003 : 12:06:33 PM
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how about you put a proximity or touch swich, so when they touch the car or go near it the generator will turn on
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DELETED (Inactive)
24 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2003 : 04:50:58 AM
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You really need to electrically isolate the door handle for this to work
-this shouldnt be hard to do...just take a little time and effort to do...
What about connecting a metal plate under the handle and energizing that?
-good idea, was thinking a similar thought, youve got to have a +ve and -ve for the burgler to touch, right? but the circuit cant be completed constantly otherwise youve got a short circuit... stop me if im wrong, im not entirely sure...
ok, heres my refined idea:
hook up the hv generator to the car alarm (so the generator only turns on when the alarm is activated)
hook up the hv generator output to a large capacitor and control circuit (the control circuit turns off hv generator when the capacitor is fully charged.
hook up the capacitors +ve to all four doorhandles (which have been isolated from the cars earth.
hook up the capacitors -ve up to a thin metal plate glued (and isolated from +ve doorhandles) to all four doorhandles.
that way this is the result...:
park car and activate alarm = turn on high voltage generator, which charges the capacitor. when the capacitor is full, the control cirrcuit shuts off the hight volatage generator (until capacitor needs charging again)
when mr. thief comes along, he touches the doorhandle (which is +ve) and touches the metal plate underneath (which is -ve) when he lifts the doorhandle to open it, thus completing the circuit and delivering the eletric shock.
the result is mr. theif is stunned and falls down on his butt feeling very sore indeed.
*** however there is an adition i will make***
me. theif becomes pissed off due to this shock, and decides to dammage the car.
1)he can kick in the panels of the car
2) he can smash all the windows
now to deal with this. panel damage is inevitable, but is normally easy to fix, so we accept this and leave it be.
As for the smashing windows, mr. thief can think again.
we, being intelligent fellows have already considered this possibility, and replaced the standard glass windows (minus the front windshield) with new ones made from lexan, a strong plastic similar to plexiglass.
lexan, being much lighter, also lightens the car some, although not considerably. it is also scratch-proof as long as it was heated correctly when it was made to the shape of the car windows.
So, when mr.thief decides to hit the window with a bat or brick etc, the item, instead of shattering the window, simply bounces back and scones the poor sod in the head...
I might also add that lexan is used in dragsters and nascar etc for windows...
anyways, that all ive got so far, i like it tho, questions/comments/opinions etc???
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Aaron Cake
Administrator
Canada
6718 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2003 : 09:52:46 AM
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Without a doubt, DO NOT use capacitors unless you are planning to kill someone. Believe me, a large capacitor discharging can produce a SIGNIFICANT amount of energy. Certainly more then just a little shock.
With a high enough voltage (10KV+) you don't necessarily need a ground. It will still deliver a nasty shock.
As for lexan, be aware that it scratches very, very easily. And might be quite illegal to run on a street car.
There are window films available that make ordinary glass unbreakable.
Any particular reason why your car keeps being broken into?
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Epsilon!
Mad Scientist
Canada
276 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2003 : 11:01:39 AM
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Aaron, what is the frequency of your HV generator? What if a small cap is used, i mean really low capacitance? will that kill?
How about you heat the handle when the alarm goes on, Its pretty easy and you dont need to isolate anything. When mr.theif touches the handle he gets a nasty burn.
Edited by - Epsilon! on Aug 21 2003 11:08:15 AM |
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cirvin
Nobel Prize Winner
USA
1542 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2003 : 8:04:38 PM
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the frequency of the hv generator is dependant on the transformer you use. it is like a tesla coul. they operate at different frequenceys. as for the door handle, paint on a good layer of polyurethane paint on the handle, then pain't two stripes of conductive paint over that. connect the hv generator leads to the two strips. viola!. by the way, how do you plan to open the door yourself without getting shocked?
next stop: nobel prize winner! |
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Epsilon!
Mad Scientist
Canada
276 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2003 : 8:11:02 PM
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Generator only turns on if alarm has been activated
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DELETED (Inactive)
24 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2003 : 9:55:20 PM
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reply to aarons post:
Without a doubt, DO NOT use capacitors unless you are planning to kill someone. Believe me, a large capacitor discharging can produce a SIGNIFICANT amount of energy. Certainly more then just a little shock.
-dosent it depend on the capacitor, eg if its a 300v capacitor with a very low amperage?
With a high enough voltage (10KV+) you don't necessarily need a ground. It will still deliver a nasty shock.
-dont want to use a straight 10kv+ charge, if something went wrong, the guy could fry. if not the car might... :S
As for lexan, be aware that it scratches very, very easily. And might be quite illegal to run on a street car.
-lexan scratches easily, but not if it has been heated correctly i bhileve. when correctly heated, it should be close to scratch-proof as well as shatter proof.
There are window films available that make ordinary glass unbreakable.
-I am aware of these. they dont make ordinary glass unbreakable, when a car window breaks, it shatters/spiderwebs etc like normal... the film merely holds the glass in place so that the theif can smash, but not grab
Any particular reason why your car keeps being broken into?
cuz mazda familiars are really easy to break into, dunno why other than that bad luck?
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DELETED (Inactive)
24 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2003 : 11:07:38 PM
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reply to cirivin:
How about you heat the handle when the alarm goes on, Its pretty easy and you dont need to isolate anything. When mr.theif touches the handle he gets a nasty burn.
-it takes time to heat the doorhandle, not instant like shock (plus shock has no lasting effects incase i got sued etc... no physical evidence=no case)
Also, heating hot enough to burn someone would be more dangerous and desttroy the paint on my car...
as for the door handle, paint on a good layer of polyurethane paint on the handle, then pain't two stripes of conductive paint over that. connect the hv generator leads to the two strips. viola!. by the way, how do you plan to open the door yourself without getting shocked?
-like that idea, but would wear after a while etc and may cause problems later...
dont be dumb enough to touch the doorhandles when the alarms activated...lol
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DELETED (Inactive)
24 Posts |
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Aaron Cake
Administrator
Canada
6718 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2003 : 09:18:02 AM
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Man, I feel your pain. I have been rear ended also. Take a look at http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/myrx-7crash.htm for the story. Luckily, your damage looks superficial. A new bumper, tailllight and a little bodywork and she'll be good as new. And of course, it was a woman who hit you...Big surprise there. Further reinforces my opinion that women should not drive.
As for your HV circuit, 10KV is safer then it sounds. The HV generator puts out very little current. It will result a very painful shock, but probably no damage done. The problem with a capacitor is that small ones will be way too weak. It will feel like a static shock. Once you get large enough to actually make the person feel it, you get dangerous.
I also concur about Mazdas being easy to break into. I can be into an RX-7 and have it started in about 30 seconds...
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help me fight car theft...
