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 12/120V inverter again
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Aaron Cake
Administrator

Canada
6714 Posts

Posted - Apr 10 2014 :  09:36:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit Aaron Cake's Homepage  Send Aaron Cake an ICQ Message  Send Aaron Cake a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
The current required at 4VDC would be enormous. Do you want to feed the thing with inch thick solid copper bars? Not to mention that voltage is way too low for the 2N3055s to bias properly. Basically, the circuit would need to be redesigned with a separate oscillator driving a set of more modern IGBTs. But that still doesn't help the current issue. Do you have a 4VDC source which can produce the approx 175A necessary to make 400W (accounting for inefficiency) at 120V? Such a system is best done as a high frequency switcher anyway so you don't need 200LBs transformer.
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Sun Dog
Apprentece

Canada
5 Posts

Posted - Apr 10 2014 :  7:38:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The 4V source is a large (1350Ah) lead acid battery and the manufacture's specs include a draw up to 459A http://rollsbattery.com/public/specsheets/4KS25P.pdf I didn't realize the efficiency of the inverter would be so low but I could live with it. I suppose it wouldn't be any more efficient, but would it be simpler to build a 4VDC to 12VDC converter and then just use a standard 12VDC to 120VAC inverter?
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audioguru
Nobel Prize Winner

Canada
4218 Posts

Posted - Apr 10 2014 :  9:18:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This inverter project does not work. Its maximum output is about 45W at low voltage because the transistors have hardly any base current and they have avalanche breakdown of their emitter-base junctions which are reverse biased far more than the maximum allowed reverse voltage (7V) listed on the datasheet.
Find a better circuit.
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Aaron Cake
Administrator

Canada
6714 Posts

Posted - Apr 13 2014 :  10:33:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit Aaron Cake's Homepage  Send Aaron Cake an ICQ Message  Send Aaron Cake a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sun Dog

The 4V source is a large (1350Ah) lead acid battery and the manufacture's specs include a draw up to 459A http://rollsbattery.com/public/specsheets/4KS25P.pdf I didn't realize the efficiency of the inverter would be so low but I could live with it. I suppose it wouldn't be any more efficient, but would it be simpler to build a 4VDC to 12VDC converter and then just use a standard 12VDC to 120VAC inverter?



You need to build a high frequency switching inverter to convert your 4V to 120V to avoid 200 LBs of transformer and massively inefficient circuit. Your battery will last only a few hundred cycles at that kind of discharge. Peukert effect will eat into your AH capacity significantly.

I'd suggest connecting these batteries in series to get the voltage as high as practically possible before bringing it up to 120VAC. If you can get 120VDC or higher then so much the better.
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Sun Dog
Apprentece

Canada
5 Posts

Posted - Apr 13 2014 :  8:29:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Unfortunately I only have one of these batteries and at ~$1400 each I won't/can't be adding any more. I have tried to find a single 2V cell locally so that I could at least deal with a 6V system. Bumping it up to 12V would obviously make everything much easier, but I haven't had any luck sourcing the required batteries. I wonder what would happen if I connected it in series with a regular 12V automotive battery and then tried to charge it with a high quality MPPT solar charge controller? Wonder how long the 12V battery would last?
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Aaron Cake
Administrator

Canada
6714 Posts

Posted - Apr 23 2014 :  10:08:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit Aaron Cake's Homepage  Send Aaron Cake an ICQ Message  Send Aaron Cake a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
What exactly are you trying to do?

It might be worth starting a new topic and outlining what you're doing to find some recommendations. You are working with very unusual voltages and I think going about it in a very inefficient way. Depends though on the application.
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n/a
deleted

1 Posts

Posted - Jun 07 2014 :  07:15:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hai every one
I have a 220 volt Micro wave owen transformer.I am planing to build this circuit.http://www.eleccircuit.com/12-volt-to-220-volt-inverter-500w/. What should be the wire gauge at 12-0-12 side if I have to get 500 watt out put.How to calculate the amp at primary side,is it (500 watt divide by 12 volt) or(500 watt divide by 24 volt).I am confused pls help.

Edited by - n/a on Jun 07 2014 11:18:56 AM
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Aaron Cake
Administrator

Canada
6714 Posts

Posted - Jun 14 2014 :  10:36:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit Aaron Cake's Homepage  Send Aaron Cake an ICQ Message  Send Aaron Cake a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
You should have started your own topic as this question does not apply to the inverter schematic on this site.

500W at 220V would require 100A at 12V if efficiency was 100%. As this circuit is way below that value, you will most likely be looking around 140A. Size wire appropriately and you're looking at a transformer not from a microwave, but more from a welder. However these types of transformers often have magnetic shunts to limit current. You'll need to remove those. Passing around 150A requires about 4 gauge cable.
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pebe
Nobel Prize Winner

United Kingdom
1078 Posts

Posted - Jun 14 2014 :  1:34:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The original circuit is over 10 years old.

It was rubbish when it was designed - it's still rubbish now!
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David70
New Member

Bangladesh
2 Posts

Posted - Oct 13 2014 :  08:37:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Quote from schematic page: "This circuit can be tricky to get going. Differences in transformers, transistors, parts substitutions or anything else not on this page may cause it to not function."

watson
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melecio
New Member

Philippines
1 Posts

Posted - Mar 17 2015 :  9:27:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sir how about If I wanted to increase the load capacity of the inverter from 12 to 240 volts 3000 to 5000 watts pure sinusoidal wave output does the diagram the same in the above post.

May I know what electronics devices should I change values and formula for the computation of each part if you have.

Thanks
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audioguru
Nobel Prize Winner

Canada
4218 Posts

Posted - Mar 21 2015 :  12:16:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by melecio

Sir how about If I wanted to increase the load capacity of the inverter from 12 to 240 volts 3000 to 5000 watts pure sinusoidal wave output does the diagram the same in the above post.

May I know what electronics devices should I change values and formula for the computation of each part if you have.

Thanks


Everybody agrees that the circuit of the inverter has many errors and is much too simple.

You need to go to school and learn about the basics of electronics to learn what must be changed so the output is 240V instead of 120V (hint, instead of a 120V to 24V center-tapped transformer use a 240V to 24V center-tapped transformer), to learn how to completely redesign the inverter for an enormous load of 5000W and to learn how to design a sinewave inverter.
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btendengu1
New Member

Zimbabwe
1 Posts

Posted - Mar 25 2015 :  10:00:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I WANT TO KNOW THE METHOD USED TO CALCULATE OR TO SIZE A PURE FERRITE TORROID CORE IN COMING UP WITH THE PROPER WINDINGS LEADING TO THE RIGHT WATTAGE FOR PURE SINE WAVE INVERTERS, FOR EXAMPLE I NEED I PURE FERRITE TOROIDAL CORE FOR PROPER POWER RATING OR WATTAGE SAY 3KW 4KW , WHAT CRITERIA DO THEY USE. PLEASE DO HELP OUT.

BERNARD TENDENGU
HARARE ZIMBABWE
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audioguru
Nobel Prize Winner

Canada
4218 Posts

Posted - Mar 31 2015 :  5:51:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Don't you have ordinary electricity? 4kW would power a small city.
The battery for it would be almost the size of a car.

Most of us would use an inverter when we are away from home and are camping, fishing or hunting and use it to light a few lights at night.

My electricity is reliable and inexpensive. I never go away camping, fishing or hunting so I have never needed an inverter.
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wilkes5
New Member

2 Posts

Posted - Apr 14 2015 :  12:00:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by audioguru

BTW, Will,
The 500W inverter project that I fixed was reported to deliver 720W. So its output transistors must have had an emitter current of almost 15A.Since its driver transistos were connected in a darlinton arrangement, they probably had a collector current that exceeded that of the output transistors, and all currents went into the transformer. I would never push transistors so hard, therefore rated the circuit at only 500W.
The link to that schematic is posted again here:
http://www.electronics-lab.com/forum/attachments/500Watts_Inverter.gif





would like to build your circuit as to modify a home audio processor to function in my car...

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/attachments/amp-guts-modifications-custom-crossovers/55634d1409924155-modding-home-processor-car-audio-img_0718.jpg


http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/attachments/amp-guts-modifications-custom-crossovers/55635d1409924155-modding-home-processor-car-audio-img_0721.jpg

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/attachments/amp-guts-modifications-custom-crossovers/55636d1409924155-modding-home-processor-car-audio-img_0722.jpg

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/attachments/amp-guts-modifications-custom-crossovers/55637d1409925049-modding-home-processor-car-audio-img_0723.jpg

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/attachments/amp-guts-modifications-custom-crossovers/55638d1409925049-modding-home-processor-car-audio-img_0724.jpg

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/attachments/amp-guts-modifications-custom-crossovers/55639d1409925049-modding-home-processor-car-audio-img_0725.jpg
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