| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| mrgone |
Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 11:01:00 AM
I already posted this to Myspace so you can look here and download the drawings. I pulled this down from another website.
http://forums.myspace.com/t/4011839.aspx?fuseaction=forums.viewthread
http://forums.myspace.com/t/4011839.aspx?fuseaction=forums.viewthread |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Jan 04 2009 : 10:26:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by spaman
"two shay" if I may, just have completed the 122 trucks grossing more than 110K in three months, where can i find a professional chemists to employ. mrgone, I am currently talking to 3 other trucking company who were watching the results from my first. my next step is to seek professional installers nationwide. LOL, I worked twenty years in the racing industry and never made this kind of money, neverless the stress.
Simple question: Where's your proof? Of not only your success in scamming, but also any improvements this scam has generated for the company you are selling it to you.
Unless you post proof, I don't believe a word you say.
What is the name of this trucking company? Where are they located? What are details of your setup? Did they just pay a license or did they buy the parts and pay for your labour? Are you a licenced mechanic? What legal guarantees do you offer? What is the name of your company and the registration number in your jurisdiction of your business?
To be honest, all you've done is the same thing every other HHO scammer has done: post on the Internet claiming miracles. I, on the other hand, have dug up actual science to prove my point. Have I run any tests in the real world? Hell no. I don't need to because simple common sense and scientific proof has showed this to be unnecessary. Also I already have a car that gets 100MPG so I don't need any miracle devices. |
| audioguru |
Posted - Jan 01 2009 : 10:29:31 AM
It is amazing that the trucking companies paid you a small fortune to change the air cleaners which increased the mileage.
Do you ever wonder why car and truck manufacturers don't use the HHO scam?
A police department tried HHO but didn't admit anything about it because it doesn't work.
Taxi and limo companies have not said anything about HHO. |
| spaman |
Posted - Jan 01 2009 : 07:33:34 AM
"two shay" if I may, just have completed the 122 trucks grossing more than 110K in three months, where can i find a professional chemists to employ. mrgone, I am currently talking to 3 other trucking company who were watching the results from my first. my next step is to seek professional installers nationwide. LOL, I worked twenty years in the racing industry and never made this kind of money, neverless the stress.
I really do love the negitive feedback, it just proves the lack of knowledge and or ability to develop and adapt. If you cant work a english wheel it would be best to stay away from it.
Keep feeding me guys, it feels great and gives you something to do. |
| TheRicker |
Posted - Dec 22 2008 : 11:06:28 AM
This is how an HHO advocate should respond, "two-shay".
LOL, Aaron, they are high school chemists. |
| audioguru |
Posted - Oct 19 2008 : 2:00:25 PM
The tiny amount of HHO added makes the mixture too lean. Then the NOX pollution is too high and the engine burns valves and pistons instead of fuel.
Uncle Sam is not doing this "adding HHO" scam. They are using pure hydrogen as the only fuel. |
| mrgone |
Posted - Oct 19 2008 : 07:19:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by spaman
Hello Aaron,
Well here's the update from 8-3-08 posting, I have installed a 6 pack in a tractor trailer, that 6 pack has delivered 3 miles per gallon increase over the past 5 weeks saving the trucking firm $3276.00 in fuel cost. I received the money for my installation and the contract for 122 tractors within the next 3 months. This junk is not working then so be it. Someday everyone will be using hydrogen for fuel, its to bad that your pride has you choked up and keeps you from even trying it, but thats ok its just junk anyway.
I said i would reply with the results and i did, hate that i cant keep reading the mass effort you exert in kicking it down, that energy could have re-directed in a more postive side of you. I am very busy now and really dont have time to absorb the negative feedback i might expect, so thanks Aaron for all the good you done with this forum.
Oh, by the way, Uncle Sam (US Goverment)has joined in on this scam as you describe it, check out this link, even thought Canada is your home country its ok, http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/technologies.html
You got the contract? Wow! That is too cool! Regardless of what you hear on here, please keep us up to date. I just keep an open mind. To me nothing is conclusive unless I have actually done it myself of which I haven't done the first thing. So who am I to speak?
The way I look at it,is it very well could be a matter of efficiency. It maybe that if the efficiency is improved and finely tuned then the pros will out weigh the cons. So in a way we are living through you and your results spaman. Keep up the good work  ...and Congratulations. |
| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Oct 13 2008 : 10:36:54 AM
Yes, of course. I'd like to see the methodology as well as the results. |
| davezzr |
Posted - Oct 12 2008 : 5:54:19 PM
Hi Aaron,well the results are in and as i said i followed my test method to the letter with an unbias view.Would you like to know the results??
|
| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 11:10:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Alien
It's been a long time since I've been here.
With the shitty gas prices I decided to give this a try. Cost me about 25$ total in ABS piping, fittings, relay...etc
It's pretty well built, but I have no proof of it making an actual difference. Since I'm messing with the O2 sensor output, the ECU will send less gas whether or not there is enough H2 to replace it.
Exactly. And whether you know it or not, you are driving differently then before you started. I've recently read a bunch of automotive forum posts where people say how much this "HHO" junk is making their mileage increase...only to have them post back in a week apologizing and saying that it was their different driving style or some other external factor.
quote:
Still, I'm running it this week, see what happens. How could I monitor differences in the operation of the engine, like the temperature if it's running too lean?
Your best bet is to use an EGT probe. Run the engine unmodified and monitor EGTs. Then add in your modifications. As the EGT increases, you are running leaner.
quote:
I was thinking of your arguments earlier. If injecting the hydroxide should raise RPM or boost horsepower, shouldn't leaning out the engine result in the opposite?
Yes. You start leaning the engine past stoich and you loose torque and HP, EGTs go up and you may actually use more fuel. NOX skyrockets as well. Most engines happy at stoich under light load, and often just a bit leaner under steady state. But they will want much richer ratios under throttle (commonly around 13.5:1 to 12.5:1 for NA, as rich as 11:1 or even a bit richer for forced induction).
Now you could tune leaner and then supplement your primary fuel with another fuel. No rocket science here...you're still burning the same amount of fuel.
quote:
Maybe I'm waay off but from what I understand...
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/09/12/bmw-officially-announces-the-bmw-hydrogen-7/
17.6 lbs, or 17.6 lbs/(4.432 lbs/ft3) =
3.97 ft3 = 112L of liquid H2 to go over 125 miles (201.2Km)= .56L/Km.
Not sure what you mean. Liquid hydrogen and gaseous hydrogen are a bit difference in density.  |
| Alien |
Posted - Sep 29 2008 : 02:37:03 AM
It's been a long time since I've been here.
With the shitty gas prices I decided to give this a try. Cost me about 25$ total in ABS piping, fittings, relay...etc
It's pretty well built, but I have no proof of it making an actual difference. Since I'm messing with the O2 sensor output, the ECU will send less gas whether or not there is enough H2 to replace it.
Still, I'm running it this week, see what happens. How could I monitor differences in the operation of the engine, like the temperature if it's running too lean?
> I was thinking of your arguments earlier. If injecting the hydroxide should raise RPM or boost horsepower, shouldn't leaning out the engine result in the opposite?
quote:
8% of 1125 is 90 litres of hydrogen!
Maybe I'm waay off but from what I understand...
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/09/12/bmw-officially-announces-the-bmw-hydrogen-7/
17.6 lbs, or 17.6 lbs/(4.432 lbs/ft3) =
3.97 ft3 = 112L of liquid H2 to go over 125 miles (201.2Km)= .56L/Km.
|
| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Sep 28 2008 : 11:16:24 AM
I'm planning to have someone else randomly switch on the "HHO" generator without my knowledge. It's going to be very difficult to control ambient air temp perfectly but a few degrees here and there won't make much of a difference.
Keep in mind that (like everyone else who has performed this experiment) I'm not expecting much of a result. Mainly I'm doing it to counter all the "HHO" spam currently on YouTube. |
| davezzr |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 6:20:11 PM
Hi Aaron im back again,just read your piece on building your own mason jar and testing using a cup of fuel...exactly what im in the proccess of doing now only with a bit more fuel per run.Now to make the test a bit more fair ive decided that all circumstances should remain identical.
engine temp
ambiant air temp
RPM at 750
fresh oil.air filter,fresh plugs
useing a measured 1litre per test run from no fuel in the system (dry) to dry
I shall run 3 test runs with fuel only and no HHO generator attached
3 test runs with HHO generator attached but not activated
and 3 test runs with HHO generator attached and activated
from each 3 runs i will note times to run out and take the mean average as final figure.
This should give an indication of wether the system is giving a positive result.
If you would like me to take any other reading during this test period please let me know before i commence |
| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Sep 22 2008 : 7:23:52 PM
Popular Mechanics builds and tests an HHO generator. No mileage increase:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4276846.html?series=19 |
| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Sep 22 2008 : 7:22:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by spaman
Hello Aaron,
Well here's the update from 8-3-08 posting, I have installed a 6 pack in a tractor trailer, that 6 pack has delivered 3 miles per gallon increase over the past 5 weeks saving the trucking firm $3276.00 in fuel cost. I received the money for my installation and the contract for 122 tractors within the next 3 months. This junk is not working then so be it. Someday everyone will be using hydrogen for fuel, its to bad that your pride has you choked up and keeps you from even trying it, but thats ok its just junk anyway.
What scientific testing have you done to confirm the fuel savings? I assume a proper double-blind test was done in which dummy units were installed in some trucks, real units in others, and the drivers (nor the mechanics installing or those making the measurements) were uninformed as to which unit they had?
Otherwise it is impossible to verify where the fuel savings had actually come from. I used the example before of the fuel line magnets. The thing is that if people believe they have a magic device that saves fuel, they will save fuel. Physcological effects are very interesting. For example, if you offer a person two potato chips and tell them that one chip is three times the price of the other, they will like the expensive chip and always rate it higher on a scale. Nevermind that both chips came from the same bag.
Now, you don't need to worry about my "pride" because believe me, if someone came up to me with a real scientific study, I'd be all ears to hear the information. But the issue that no one has yet proved scientifically that these systems work, and all the calculations and studies say they don't. The burden of proof lies on the one making extraordinary claims, not those debunking them.
When I have some time, I fully intend to construct my own mason jar electrolyzer and connect it to a spare single cylinder Briggs and Stratton engine. I will then put one cup of fuel into the tank and run it without the device, recording how long it runs. I will then repeat with the electrolyzer. Any difference more then 10% would be considered a result. However as I have a very long list of things to do, this is very low on my priorities. Maybe I can convince a student to do it as a project instead?
It's good however that you have had success with your devices, regardless of what is causing that success. I suggest that you can make some serious money by submitting to the Million Dollar HHO Challenge: http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho_challenge.shtml
quote:
I said i would reply with the results and i did, hate that i cant keep reading the mass effort you exert in kicking it down, that energy could have re-directed in a more postive side of you. I am very busy now and really dont have time to absorb the negative feedback i might expect, so thanks Aaron for all the good you done with this forum.
If you don't want to read the whole thread, read just the big post in which I link to the Department of Energy studies.
quote:
Oh, by the way, Uncle Sam (US Goverment)has joined in on this scam as you describe it, check out this link, even thought Canada is your home country its ok, http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/technologies.html
Maybe I'm missing something here, but that site describes hydrogen as a fuel source in a fuel cell based system. Nowhere does it mention electrolyzers under the hood of gasoline vehicles or even burning hydrogen in internal combustion engines. Certainly in certain circumstances fuel cells run by hydrogen could be a viable power source for electric vehicles but that is likely never going to happen. The fact is that it's just massively more efficient to recharge batteries using the electrical infrastructure that already exists. |
| spaman |
Posted - Sep 21 2008 : 7:34:52 PM
Hello Aaron,
Well here's the update from 8-3-08 posting, I have installed a 6 pack in a tractor trailer, that 6 pack has delivered 3 miles per gallon increase over the past 5 weeks saving the trucking firm $3276.00 in fuel cost. I received the money for my installation and the contract for 122 tractors within the next 3 months. This junk is not working then so be it. Someday everyone will be using hydrogen for fuel, its to bad that your pride has you choked up and keeps you from even trying it, but thats ok its just junk anyway.
I said i would reply with the results and i did, hate that i cant keep reading the mass effort you exert in kicking it down, that energy could have re-directed in a more postive side of you. I am very busy now and really dont have time to absorb the negative feedback i might expect, so thanks Aaron for all the good you done with this forum.
Oh, by the way, Uncle Sam (US Goverment)has joined in on this scam as you describe it, check out this link, even thought Canada is your home country its ok, http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/technologies.html
|
|
|
