| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| 2R0T0RFURY |
Posted - Oct 18 2012 : 09:26:22 AM
I recently acquired an S5 motor from a friend with plans of rebuilding it. After reading your write up on your turbocharged N/A along with many of the posts here, I've hit a wall with my rebuild plans. Things I knew would be issues with attempting to boost an N/a were the compression ration of s5 rotors and the clearance issue with using the N/A LIM. The car is an s4 as is the current engine which is in decent shape save for the front rotor housing (one broken exhaust stud unable to be removed and one stripped). I have 2 usable rotor housings aside from the s5 motor to attempt a build. I realize the ideal way to boost a rotary is to just get a TII motor but seeing as I don't like doing things conventionally, I included the possibility of boosting whatever I build although I prefer all motor power.
Some of the ideas I've had for my 6-port were A) porting the engine with the Mazdatrix 6-port template with or without boosting, B) a semi peripheral port, or C) full p-port. This is not a street car so I'm not worried about the streetability or noise issues. If I go with the first idea and decide to add boost, I had some ideas about things but not sure if they'll work. Since I have an s4 already I thought about keeping that rotating assembly since the rotors have slightly lower compression or just sourcing all the parts for a tII rotating assembly. The question is what exactly do I need for the complet assembly to be balanced properly? I assume matching weight rotors and front/rear counterweights, but is there anything else I need. I also planned to port-match the tII lower I have to fit my n/a or I might go with a pro-jay manifold since they have options for semi p-port 6 port setups. I'd also like to get some ideas on a good turbo to use for either using n/a rotors or turbo rotors. Any other advice is much appreciated. |
| 5 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Nov 24 2012 : 11:22:12 AM
The TII transmission and matching drivetrain will be fine up to about 500HP.
Gilmer drives really don't accomplish anything other than making noise. Belt slippage isn't a concern when a dual belt pulley is used.
Sucks to hear about the water pumper. Corrosion in that area is very common. |
| 2R0T0RFURY |
Posted - Nov 05 2012 : 8:32:36 PM
Thanks for the heads up on rotary works. By the way I was referring to a turbo build when I said 600hp. Not even trying to think that high for an n/a. I have heard of some full p-ports making around 290 but I'm not sure if I want to go that way. Gilmer drive was pretty much what I thought about to negate slippage since it just looks a little prettier than a simple dual alt. pulley setup. Most of the stuff I've been looking at lately is more for "reinforcement" of the hard parts so I would have an engine I know can hold up to high boost with the least amount of wear. So far after the tear down I've discovered an unusable front rotor and front housing. The thinner area of material on the water o-ring groove wore away in 2 spots which led to o-ring failure and water got into the housing where it sat for way to long. Bad enough that some of the rotor seals seem to be rusted in place. After seeing this I'm seriously thinking of sourcing a good tII block to work with. In the event of high drivetrain stress, what would you recommend that can handle high hp? Finding drivetrain parts outside of the usual upgrade axles and driveshafts has been rough. I've been thinking of an alternate transmissions as well but trannys aren't really my thing so I'm in the dark there. |
| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Nov 03 2012 : 10:51:21 AM
It honestly doesn't take much to "smoke" those old guys at the track with big block V8s. Unless you are talking a track prepped car, most of those V8s are making under 350HP in cars that weigh well over 3000 LBs with stone age suspensions that don't hook up and lazy slushboxes. A 350HP FC on a good set of cheater slicks is in the mid to low 11s. 90% of the old muscle car guys at the strip when I'm there are running in the 13s and 14s.
600HP? I think the best advice I can give at this point is to stop right there. 600HP NA isn't going to happen unless you have a well tuned peripheral port 20B or a 4 rotor.
Turbo, it's not really easy as such, but less complicated. 4 port S5 (at least) block with S4 TII rotors, bridgeport, GT42R, and the appropriate amount of fuel and good tuning. The problem is that being inexperienced, you'll go through a few engines getting there. Really, above 450HP the drivetrain starts to become an issue. The TII transmission starts to be a bit weak, and you're going to break stub shafts.
A warning that any product made by RotaryWorks is poor quality and not likely to fit.
Personally I am very annoyed by Gilmer drive kits. They are totally pointless in 99.999% of cases and do nothing but add a whine to the engine compartment that drowns out any other noise. |
| 2R0T0RFURY |
Posted - Nov 01 2012 : 02:22:52 AM
1) lol I know i'm all over the place. Mainly because almost everyday I find something new and while there are many tested and proven alternative setups, I still want something unique that works. The car really doesn't have a purpose other than being a beast that can smoke all those big block v8's those old guys at the strip drive when I become one of those old guys with a rotary.
2) I haven't researched any class restrictions as being an active duty soldier doesn't permit me the time to partake in such fun events so really are no restrictions.
3) As far as the budget goes, I have 2 engines to rebuild with an increasing amount of spare block parts to play with. I need to rebuild my current s4 engine and that will stay n/a but I want a little more than a basic rebuild. The s5 block I acquired will be a long term project for about 5 years to possibly a decade so budget isn't an issue as long as all the work is worth it (future retirement to
4) Power goals for the currently running motor are whatever I can get without having to do major upgrades to the supporting systems and ecu. I just want to rebuild and give it a little more power. As for the other build, I have a minimum goal of 600 HP and a max goal of whatever is possibly achieve. I've not dealt with boosted rotaries much so I'm not clear on what's the most they can handle.
I decided to also include some links to help clear up the reason behind all my crazy ideas. I'm also in need of advice on upgrades to the supporting systems, i.e. cooling, lubrication, exhaust, etc.
http://jhbperformance.com/services.php
http://www.pro-jay.com/Pro-Jay-MTBA-TB-INT-Combo-BD.htm?productId=62
http://www.pro-jay.com/4-Barrel-Throttle-Body-Combo-BB.htm?productId=19
http://www.rotary-works.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=rotaryworks&Product_Code=RW-Stud-Kit-Extreme-13B-TI&Category_Code=THBD
http://www.rotary-works.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=rotaryworks&Product_Code=RW-MF-RX7-FC&Category_Code=HDMF
http://www.risingrpm.com/products/product_page_2012b_fd_to_fc_intake_adapter_kit.asp
http://www.risingrpm.com/products/product_page_inlet_duct_b.asp
http://xtremerotaries.com/products/engine-components/pulleys-and-gilmer-kits/d308-gilmer-drive-kit |
| Aaron Cake |
Posted - Oct 21 2012 : 10:38:23 AM
OK, those plans are sort of all over the place.
Start from the beginning:
1. What is the purpose of the car?
2. Are there any racing class restrictions?
3. BUDGET!
4. Power goals?
Notice power is last.
A full peripheral port using the S5 rotating assembly (match front counterweight, flywheel and rotors) is going to make the most NA power.
Semi-PP is going to make a little more than a bridgeport.
Then again any turbo engine is going to make far more power, use less fuel, be easier to tune, have a better powerband, and won't require being revved to a billion RPM to make that power. |
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